---
title: "Building psychological safety at scale | with Madison Butler | SocialTalent"
description: "Madison Butler says psychological safety starts with leadership, and suggests telling teams upfront that half of what they try simply won't work."
url: "https://www.socialtalent.com/podcasts/building-psychological-safety-at-scale-with-madison-butler"
last_modified: "2026-08-11T10:10:58+00:00"
---

The Hiring Excellence Podcast **· Episode 80**

# Building psychological safety at scale | with Madison Butler

Psychological safety isn't a buzzword—it's the foundation of innovation, retention, and inclusion. Madison Butler explains why it matters, how leaders can build it, and what peers can do to reinforce it.

![Johnny Campbell](https://www.socialtalent.com/wp-content/themes/socialtalent-v3/src/posts/post-podcast/img/johnny-avatar.png) **Johnny Campbell** Host · Co-founder & CEO, SocialTalent

Listen on [Apple](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/hiring-excellence-with-johnny-campbell/id1522711595) [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/4z0PfHNk1Dtek9IVlSWnOd) [LinkedIn](https://www.linkedin.com/company/social-talent/)

What you'll learn

Spot code-switching as a sign that a team lacks psychological safety

Separate intrinsic identity from harmful choices when holding people accountable

Design your organization intentionally for the most marginalized person not yet present

Document hiring and promotion decisions to expose and reduce hidden bias

Now playing

## Building psychological safety at scale | with Madison Butler

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Episode notes

## Episode key takeaways

Psychological safety means existing without fear of ridicule, dismissal, or retaliation for showing up authentically. It's the difference between a team where people hide parts of their identity and one where they can contribute fully as themselves—and it directly correlates with retention and innovation.

Madison argues that responsibility sits primarily with senior leadership, even though everyone plays a role. If frontline teams do the self-work but leadership doesn't, nothing changes; people see the safety as temporary and team-specific, not organizational.

Accidental exclusion—ignored lunch invitations, selective endorsements, stretch projects given only to favorites—often stems from similarity bias rather than malice. Documenting promotion criteria, project assignments, and hiring rationale forces leaders to examine the 'why' and reduces the risk of rewarding sameness.

Failure must be safe. Teams that feel safe to fail are the ones that innovate; teams locked in fear repeat the same work indefinitely. One simple practice: tell your team upfront that 50% of what you try won't work, and that's the cost of growth.

Start with communication style. Ask peers and direct reports how they prefer to receive feedback, whether they want their camera on in meetings, and what they need from you. Putting power back into people's hands—even in small ways—signals safety and shifts the dynamic from hierarchy to collaboration.

Good to know

## Frequently asked questions

The quick answers behind this episode.

What is psychological safety and why does it matter in hiring and retention? +

Psychological safety is the ability to show up authentically at work without fear of ridicule, dismissal, or retaliation. It drives innovation because people feel safe to fail and try new things. Without it, employees code-switch, hide parts of their identity, and eventually leave—contributing to the Great Resignation.

How do I start building psychological safety if I'm not a senior leader? +

Middle managers and peers can ask ‘How can I support you?’ in one-on-ones, clarify preferred communication styles, and call out accidental exclusion when they see it. You can’t change organizational policy alone, but you can model safety in your team and influence the culture around you.

What's the difference between covering and psychological safety? +

Covering is the act of hiding or downplaying parts of your identity—code-switching, straightening your hair, changing your voice. Psychological safety is the condition that makes covering unnecessary. They’re linked: without safety, people cover; with safety, they can be themselves.

How do I reduce bias in promotion and project assignment? +

Document your criteria before making decisions. Write down why someone is getting a stretch project or promotion and why others aren’t. This forces you to examine similarity bias and ‘vibe hiring.’ A good process is defensible; gut feeling is not.

What happens when you remove harmful people from a team? +

The rest of the team blooms. One person causing intentional harm—even if they’re a high performer—shrinks everyone else into fear. Removing them signals that values matter more than revenue, and people stop dreading work and start showing up fully.

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