Johnny: Hi, and welcome to the show. I'm Johnny Campbell, CEO and co-founder of SocialTalent, and this week on the podcast we're talking with Marianne Haegeli about untapped talent pools. Marianne, you're very welcome to the podcast. I was wondering if you wouldn't mind giving our audience a little bit of an introduction to yourself, your organization, what you do, and where we find you today?
Marianne: Yes, hello, and thank you for having me. I really appreciate this opportunity.
Like you said, I'm Marianne Haegeli. I'm the Director for Learning and Leadership at NSITE—that’s N-S-I-T-E—and I have more than 25 years, I hate to admit, of experience in learning, development, and leadership development through a variety of experiences.
I started in for-profit consulting, worked in nonprofit and international education, and I’m now working for NSITE, which is also a nonprofit providing career skills training and employment readiness training, primarily for job seekers who are blind or low vision.
This is—I've had some really cool jobs in my life, and this one takes the cake. NSITE is a very small nonprofit. We’re still in startup mode, and it is our ambitious goal to build career skills training for our core audiences that spans a variety of career tracks.
Typically, organizations like ours that provide these kinds of training programs focus on one career track. You may get training for a career in contract management, let’s say. What we are trying to build is a portfolio that spans a variety of opportunities to give people a choice.
So it ranges from communications, yes—contract administration, HR, sourcing, recruiting. We even have a track for aspiring blind entrepreneurs.
Our parent company is the National Industries for the Blind. They have over 85 years of experience in creating employment opportunities, primarily on government contracts.
What we're trying to do is provide what is known as competitive integrated employment—so, regular jobs in the private sector, nonprofit, or government.
Johnny: So Marianne, I love the work that NSITE does. I've been really passionate about the programs that you run, the results, and I’m dying to dig into them.
We had some of your colleagues join us originally—maybe four years ago when we first launched the podcast—and I’m really excited to get the update, reintroduce you to our audience, and talk about how you’re leveraging what I feel is a really fantastic pool of untapped talent. Letting our audience get to know them.
But maybe before we do that, could you set the scene more broadly? Maybe let’s stick with the U.S. market if that’s more comfortable. What are the stats around employability and employment levels for people with disabilities? What are we talking about when we look at this disability category?
And then maybe dig into that particular segment you mentioned—blind and low vision talent. What does it look like demographically, and what does it feel like to be someone in that group? What does the employment market look like if you're visually impaired or blind?
Marianne: Yeah, it’s actually really depressing.
I’ve only been in the field of blind professional development for about three and a half years, and I was shocked to see what the statistics look like.
We have an unemployment rate of just over 4% nationwide in the United States. That employment—or underemployment—rate for folks with disabilities is way higher. For blind folks, it’s around 70%, and that hasn’t changed in decades.
There were some efforts—over 85 years ago—to create employment opportunities specifically for the blind and visually impaired community. Our parent company has been one of the largest employers or facilitators of those kinds of opportunities.
The challenge now is that folks are no longer necessarily interested in going into what used to be traditional disability employment opportunities. And that makes perfect sense, given what technology has brought us.
So we’re trying to catch up in two areas.
The first is providing the career training that blind and visually impaired folks need to be able to compete in the regular workforce—and that’s almost the smaller problem.
The bigger problem is that employers truly don’t understand that there’s this huge untapped workforce with tremendous talent and experience. They don’t know they can look for talent within that community.
Our two core constituencies are, yes, blind and low vision individuals and professionals looking for jobs—but almost more importantly, we focus on connecting with employers who have open positions they may find difficult to fill and let them know: we have a huge pool of talent here that you haven’t even considered.
Johnny: So Marianne, walk me through some of the roles that folks who’ve worked with NSITE in the past have gone on to do—or just the communities you work with. Because I guess for a lot of us, we may not have a colleague or friend who is visually impaired or blind.
And so, it’s maybe harder to fully understand what someone could or couldn’t do. I imagine there are obvious roles that, if you’re visually impaired, you can’t do. But it’s harder to think of all the roles that someone is perfectly capable of doing, even if they’re blind or visually impaired.
Can you walk us through those roles? What you’ve seen? Some of the examples or stories you can tell?
Marianne: Yeah. I think the most important thing to note is that blindness doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t see a thing—it’s a spectrum. That’s why we call it blind or visually impaired, or low vision.
So imagine you’re opening up your computer for a regular office job—there is very little I can think of that someone who’s blind or low vision can’t do in an office setting, because there are assistive technologies available now.
If you’re low vision and need magnification, there are applications you can use to make that happen—and you can function the exact same way as someone with perfect vision.
If you’re completely blind, or your low vision is to a point where it’s more effective to work with a screen reader, then you use that. You listen to what’s happening on the screen and get the same work done that everybody else gets done.
It’s really... it was difficult for someone like me, who has sight, to walk into this environment initially and understand how it works—because I couldn’t imagine functioning on a computer if I couldn’t see what’s going on.
Of course, if I’m blind, I can’t use a mouse—but there are keystrokes I can use to navigate the screen, and the screen reader tells me where I am and what to select.
So any office position that requires the use of a computer is perfectly doable for someone who’s blind or low vision.
Johnny: Which is so many different professions and roles. Yeah.
I’m sitting here in Dublin, Ireland. You’re sitting in the U.S. But where I live, we’ve got the European Accessibility Act coming into force in the next couple of months, which I think is a really brilliant step forward.
It makes it a requirement for all sorts of levels of accessibility—for websites, for software, for products—and it will require software to be accessible for people with low vision and many other different needs.
I remember originally speaking with one of your colleagues, Doug—who himself has low vision—around trying out SocialTalent several years ago, and I was quite stunned, surprised to realize that we were not compliant. We didn’t make it easy for someone with low vision or blindness to use our product.
So not everything is out-of-the-box ready. There are products and software that aren’t there yet.
Is that gap shrinking worldwide? Are you seeing more tools that are accessible? Or are there still gaps people have to invent around to fix? What’s your view?
Marianne: I think things are improving all the time in terms of the way apps and programs are built and designed.
You know, I come from instructional design, and I have to tell you—I’m mortified to think how little attention I paid to accessibility in my products and programs before I joined NSITE.
And it is so easy if you think about it from the beginning.
If you keep in mind that blindness is a spectrum, the first thing to look at is the contrast of the colors you’re using. If there’s not enough contrast, there’s a group of people who literally cannot read what’s on the screen or in a document.
If you build a PowerPoint presentation, for example, Microsoft has a built-in accessibility check. You build the presentation, you run the check, and the system will tell you to check the reading order—so the screen reader reads the content in the correct order. It’s that simple.
If you think about this stuff from the start, it’s neither costly nor difficult. Just take a little time to consider how you design things.
Again, I come from instructional design. I’m always thinking about my target audience—how they learn best, how I can present my content in a way they can absorb easily. So why wouldn’t I also add accessibility features? It’s the same concept.
And yet—it’s still a bit of a stretch for us sometimes. It takes a bit of adjustment.
Johnny: So Marianne, our audience might be thinking we’re going to talk about the accessibility of advertising your jobs, applying for your position, and how recruiters can think about those things.
But actually, your program goes one step further.
Can you tell us a little bit about the NSITE program as it relates to recruiting? Some of the history of it—how it got up and running, what you do, and who you partner with?
Marianne: Yeah, I absolutely wish I could take credit for this program, but I can’t. It was actually established before I joined NSITE by colleagues of mine you already referred to.
When we design new training programs, we look for careers that are conducive to folks who are blind or visually impaired. Anything that can be done remotely is inherently easier for them to thrive in, obviously.
So sourcing was one of those areas within recruiting—they can do a lot of the work from their home office, as long as they have the right technology.
The partnership was actually a triple or quadruple partnership.
NSITE partnered with SocialTalent for the learning content because of your state-of-the-art programming. Folks could take the online, self-paced program, but then we would meet once a week with them to debrief and do additional exercises in a virtual instructor-led setting.
For that, we partnered with a corporate partner. Now, we’re actually employing a blind recruiter who can guide our blind participants, share the challenges, and how to overcome them.
We also have a corporate partnership with Bristol Myers Squibb. They provide the second part of the training program: an eight-week work experience on their talent acquisition team.
Our participants get to live the life of a sourcing specialist—working with a corporate talent acquisition team to understand how the systems work, what to look for in a hiring manager interview, how to make sure job postings make sense and attract the right talent, and then source the right candidates.
Johnny: I love it. So this example—maybe you can explain how long the program takes, who these people are who join it, what their backgrounds are. And then maybe, if you wouldn’t mind, share some of the success stories at the end. I love the program—what does that look like?
Marianne: So typically, we work with state agencies in the United States. Each state has a vocational rehabilitation agency, and they have a number of clients with a variety of disabilities who they’re supporting in their efforts to become gainfully employed.
So we get our clients that way—our trainees, our participants—either they find us directly, or they’re referred through their state agency.
We run them through a vetting process because we only want to enroll folks who can actually succeed in the program. If we see something is lacking, we’ll recommend other training for them first, before they’re ready for this program.
For this sourcing program specifically, we run 12 weeks of blended learning.
SocialTalent’s online sourcing curriculum is combined with our once-a-week, hour-long, virtual instructor-led session. We do that for 12 weeks.
During that time, we also help them build their personal brand. We help with LinkedIn profiles, resume writing—because without a good LinkedIn profile and resume, they won’t be able to enter the eight-week work experience with Bristol Myers Squibb.
We love that combination. And by the way, we’ve built that into all of our training programs. Because you can be upskilled to the teeth—but if you don’t have a compelling personal brand, you’re not going to find a job.
After the eight weeks of work experience—so, a full 20 weeks of training—we issue the successful graduates a digital credential that validates their achievement. They can share it on social media, especially LinkedIn. We recommend they do.
Combined with the certificates they get from SocialTalent, this becomes a powerful portfolio showing that they have the skills to succeed in a sourcing career.
Johnny: You mentioned at the start that this isn’t just about providing someone with the skills or training—it’s really about employability. So what has that looked like with previous cohorts? And how does that compare to maybe some of the other programs that you’ve run?
Marianne: Yeah, we’re very proud of our employment outcomes.
In fiscal 2023, we had some kind of involvement in the placement of 93 individuals who are blind or visually impaired into regular employment. That’s amazingly high. It’s more than most states achieve, so we’re very proud of that.
The sourcing program has one of the better employment rates for graduates coming out of our programs, and we’re unbelievably proud of that too.
Let me give you an example.
First and foremost, once they complete the work experience, Bristol Myers Squibb typically extends job offers to the best and brightest of the cohort. One cohort—actually the first one that ran after I took the job—had nine participants. They extended three job offers to our graduates.
Another participant in that cohort got a job offer from Johns Hopkins, also in a sourcing role.
And one more participant applied for a recruiting position that didn’t work out—but she got a different position, based on the transferable skills she had gained in the program.
To me, that’s the most important thing.
If we can show them how to upskill, yes—with an eye on this career—but also feature the skills they’ve earned to apply for other positions they’re now qualified for, that’s really what we want.
Johnny: So for anyone listening who might be thinking, “How does it work—someone who is blind or has low vision sourcing talent?” Okay, you can get around the use of tools. But are there perhaps advantages that someone with low vision might have over someone with near-perfect vision in a role like this?
Marianne: Well, from my personal experience, I can tell you—I see folks in this community who have two key skills that every employer is looking for, no matter what the field.
The first one is figuring out a solution when you face a challenge. Getting really creative. My blind colleagues are finding workarounds on a daily basis that I can't even imagine having to solve for.
That’s the one thing.
The other thing I find is that many of our trainees have amazing active listening skills, which makes them brilliant in interviews—or even in email exchanges. Any exchange with a candidate becomes very meaningful because they use that active listening. They remember things at a level of detail that I would need to take notes on.
So I find that they compensate for the lack of eyesight with other incredible, so-called soft skills—that are absolutely hardcore—and make them desirable employees for any organization.
Johnny: I love this. On Tuesday, I ran a webinar for 105 recruiters to try and teach them, in part, active listening skills.
And it can be challenging—I think for any sales role as well. Somebody who’s good in this environment, which is largely digital and less in-person these days—whether it’s recruiting or selling—we’re trying to engage over some digital medium.
And if you have someone who has, through necessity, developed those additional skills or focus areas...
And I think your point around overcoming hardship is phenomenal. You want resilient folks, right?
I remember—ten years ago—talking with a friend of mine in academia, formerly in HR, and she was trying to teach resilience to 19- and 20-year-old graduates. Because that generation showed a surprising lack of resilience.
But if you’ve grown up with a visual impairment, you’ve probably already overcome an enormous amount just to get to the point of applying for your program.
And by that point, Marianne, you’ve probably already proven yourself to be someone who is tough, who has tenacity, who—like you said—finds a way around difficult challenges. Because you’ve had to do that your whole life.
And that’s something we strive for.
Marianne: That level of engagement—you experience it, and you really sense it.
It’s undivided attention. I sometimes wish there were fewer distractions around me.
I feel like so many of our learners and my colleagues have a single focus on what’s at hand right now. And that’s a really amazing trait that leads to success in many ways.
And you know, I wanted to add one thing.
Making your platforms, your documents, your employee handbook, your communications—everything—accessible to folks who are blind or low vision also makes them way more accessible for anyone who is neurodivergent.
Now we’re not talking about a single-digit percentage of your workforce—we’re talking 40% of your employees.
Many of these invisible disabilities never get disclosed. But if you pay a little attention and make your materials accessible for blind and low vision individuals, you’ve just made all of your neurodivergent learners more productive in your workplace.
Why wouldn’t we want to do that?
Johnny: You’re a hundred percent right. I remember doing some research on this last year, and something like one in four Americans in the workplace has a disability.
But the largest share of that is those who are neurodivergent—which is a “hidden” disability, one you can’t see. Because we still use that international symbol of the wheelchair to represent disability, right?
But that’s now probably a minority of people who fall into that category.
And your point is: building programs that are better for someone with low vision—or someone who is neurodivergent—is actually better for everybody.
Marianne: Absolutely.
Johnny: What’s the clarity of your communication? The structure? All these things make it better for everyone—not just for one cohort. You’re building for everybody by using the standard of someone who might have low vision or a different way their brain works.
So when I think about the cohorts and the success, Marianne, it’s wonderful. It’s a testament to how you structure the program and how you work with different individuals.
Are there any tips or advice you might give to people who are not blind or low vision—who may be contemplating working with someone who is, or are already doing so?
Any adaptations you’d recommend to support a colleague—or even during an interview process—to ensure that if someone has the best skills, they’re given a fair chance?
Marianne: Yeah. First and foremost: make sure your platforms are accessible. I hate to say it, but many recruiting platforms are not. And that creates a real problem.
So if you haven’t done a check on your platform, do that. Or at the very least, provide an alternative way to get a résumé to you.
I’ve found that my colleagues and the people we work with don’t mind at all talking about their level of blindness.
Asking questions is really important.
They know I can’t relate at the same level they experience every day, but I make it a habit to ask a ton of questions—“How do you perceive this? What if I do that?”—and I constantly share my documents with my blind colleagues for a sanity check: “Can you actually access this?”
For example, when we have a class, our model practice is to send class materials that aren’t on a platform a day in advance—so if someone is completely blind, they can run the documentation through their screen reader, take notes, and know what content is coming when.
Then the learning experience is so much better—because they’re not trying to catch up in real time.
We also work with our facilitators to get them comfortable presenting in a virtual room where your audience is blind and you’re sharing your screen.
Pointing out everything “in red” on your slide isn’t going to help those learners, right?
There are a couple of small adjustments—not rocket science—but if you build it into your process from the beginning, you’ll have huge success.
Johnny: So Marianne, you primarily work—as you mentioned—within the U.S., but you’ve actually had some international candidates come on board.
Can you tell us a bit more about how that’s expanding?
Marianne: That was a really cool story.
We had a candidate for the sourcing program from the UK—he’s based in London. He hadn’t been employed in years. He started taking this course and, at the end of the SocialTalent portion of the course—between that and the beginning of the work experience—he found a job in a sourcing role.
He’s doing extremely well. He’s been there for several years now. It’s been a huge success story.
What we’re trying to do—obviously, we have time zone challenges with the virtual instructor-led sessions—but we would love to expand further into, I’m going to say, English-speaking spaces for now.
Because I think we have unique programming—the sourcing program being one of them—and we’re looking toward the next step being a recruiting certification through SocialTalent. That way, we can offer not just one track, but career advancement within those roles.
We also have a really solid IT program that we would love to offer to English-speaking audiences around the world.
The logistics are a little daunting—but I think we can make it happen.
Johnny: But to your point, you typically have a community that’s willing to overcome challenges, and has probably spent their life doing just that.
So, Marianne—if someone’s listening and they have low vision themselves, or they have a family member or friend who does and wants to participate or learn more about your programs—what’s the best way for them to reach out or apply?
Marianne: Yeah. The easiest way is to visit our website: nsite.org—that’s N-S-I-T-E dot org, because we’re a nonprofit.
If you find us online, we have a whole page of training opportunities and programs we offer. Reach out to us. You’ll see my email address all over that website—send me an email.
We want to hear from you and find out how we can help find solutions for folks interested in training.
Also, find us and follow us on LinkedIn. We announce new programs and useful resources on a regular basis, so LinkedIn is also a great place to connect with us.
Johnny: We’re going to share those links in the show notes.
And Marianne—if you’re an employer listening to this, and you’re thinking, “This could be a valuable way for me to find untapped talent for my recruiting team,” or “I want to get involved”—how would they find out more? Does it cost money? What’s the level of commitment? How could they engage with NSITE to potentially source talent?
Marianne: I love that.
So, if you’re an employer looking for blind or visually impaired talent—also go to our website.
We have a curated job board we call NSITE Connect, and you can subscribe to that board. It only lists positions that are meant to be filled by folks who are blind or low vision—we’re not going to post bus driver jobs, right?
We vet all of those positions.
We have 500+ job seekers who are blind or low vision and currently looking for work. If you subscribe with us, you’ll have access to that talent—you can search, do your own sourcing, and find out whether we have the right person for your role.
We also have a colleague who works directly on matching employers with the right talent—whether they're on our job board or not.
So visit nsite.org, look for NSITE Connect, and explore the opportunities to partner with us and find the right talent.
Johnny: I can’t thank you enough for coming on the show today to share the story.
It’s one of those things I’m always so proud to be involved with—something we’ve partnered with NSITE on for several years now.
I just love the impact it makes—on folks who’ve had a disproportionate lack of access to employment, on bringing more diverse perspectives into our industry, and on producing not just employable people, but great sources and recruiters.
In some ways, better—because they’ve had great training, mentoring, and experience. It’s the type of talent a lot of our listeners are looking for.
So I’m delighted to see the work you’re doing, Marianne, and I hope we’ll have you back on again in a few years with more success stories.
And hopefully we’ll hear from some of our listeners who might reach out—whether to refer more candidates or become an employer partner.
Marianne: Love that. Thank you, Johnny, so much for your partnership throughout these years.
I have to say, the way you’ve embraced what’s required to make your platforms and training accessible to our audiences has been absolutely amazing. I look forward to many more years working with you—and bringing more amazing talent into this career track.
Johnny: And thank you, Marianne.
And thank you for listening. If you have a story to share—or you think there’s a community we could help, the way we’ve done with NSITE—reach out to us.
You can email me personally at [email protected].
Don’t forget to subscribe to our newsletter at socialtalent.com, or follow us on LinkedIn.
We’ll be back next week with another great episode—another story of hiring excellence and TA leadership.
Until then—take care. We’ll see you next week.
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